Podcasting for Hungarian minority in Serbia

Hi! In this episode we talk to Orsolya Seregely who is a Hungarian journalist based in Serbia. She works at the Press Freedom Foundation as a journalist, editor and podcaster. The online newsroom where she works, Szabad Magyar Szo, is the biggest independent Hungarian-ethnic minority newsroom in that region. She is a Women's Civic Leadership Academy alumni. She mostly writes about social and women's issues in the region.

The main question is - can podcasts serve as a community-building tool for ethnic minorities?

Read the full transcript below:

Hello, my name is Jakub Gornicki and this is Story Mixer, a podcast in which we talk about just one thing how to make great stories. Mixer is an organization which is devoted to supporting journalists, storytellers, influencers, basically people who produce stories in Europe, and in different places all around the world. We organize workshops, we do events, and we provide services. But what is the most important thing is that you meet great people who do great stories. It's such a great thing talking to them. So I want you to give me this opportunity so we can hear our conversations as we talk and try to understand how to make a great story. So hello, this is Story Mixer, a podcast about how to make great stories. Hello. Hello. Welcome to another episode of Story Mixer. This is Jacob, your host. Today I am with our great guest Orshe. I'm going to say Orshe because we know each other also. And because I decided not to fight with the actual pronunciation of her first and last name. But could you do it for me, please? 

Orsolya: Yes. Hello everybody. My full name is Orsolya Seregely. I gave, but as you said, I also do not expect people to pronounce it quite well. So Orshe's quite fine. 

Jakub: Even though I come from a culture which operates a language which is full of. And technically I am capable of saying this. In this particular case, I promise that in the next five years, I will learn how to do it. Yeah. 

Orsolya: But you know, anyway, kudos to you because I think from the word go, you are the only one who managed to pronounce my name properly from the very first moment because usually, it's or C or so. Yeah. So, I think you are doing great. 

Jakub: Yeah, I know it's because of this magic which we have in Polish. So this is why I managed to do it. Okay. So you are a Hungarian journalist. But you are based out of Serbia. And tell us a little bit about your work. Like where do you work and what do you do? I have to also, mention that in her free time, she is also a mixer trainer conducting our training, but we'll get to that later. 

Orsolya: Yeah. So, I'm not just based in Serbia. I'm actually from Serbia, but I'm an ethnic minority, so I'm working mostly in my mother language, which is Hungarian. I'm working for a small media, outlet called Sabah also. And we are part of the Breastfeeding Foundation. Yes. We're going to have lots of Hungarian names, so I will try to pronounce them. But if you can't catch it, it's fine. So if anyone wants to to check us out, they can do it. On the Press Freedom Foundation, we have a website and from them, you can find our different outlets. We have a painting magazine, we have, a Web magazine, we have podcasts, we have a YouTube channel. And it's crazy because we don't have so many people in our team. So we all do everything, everybody is doing everything I would say. And, I'm mostly in charge of the podcast. I'm also in charge of some interviews and, reports. I think if I would need to, pick a topic. What are my, favourite, topics to take care of are social problems and social issues or maybe even taboos. So, I think most of my interviews tackle these questions, and also my podcasts are on these topics as well. 

Jakub: Yeah, I want to talk to you about your podcast. But listen, what is it like operating such a specific ethnic minority newsroom as you describe it in Serbia these days when we hear about Serbia, it's usually very tense. Regarding the political situations, I'm talking maybe from my perspective a little bit, you know, or is it some ongoing, shit storms out between Kosovo and Serbia and so on. So this is what we hear. But how is it from your perspective? You know, I mean, when it comes to how people may connect Serbia, Hungary's defining video of both the, well, the prime minister and the president, you know, on this empty train station, waving at people. And then there is also a very famous video of, voted and to Donald Trump, about what was it, the embassy in Jerusalem, I think, when they were signing some documents and I voted to learn that. I mean, it's a great one, but tell me about your experience. Do you have any issues? Is it some kind of a problem do you have any harassment or is it just a normal operation? 

Orsolya: Well, if we look the the relation between those two countries, like I would say, because, you know, I was born in the 90s, let's say. And so in the like early 2000, there was still some, some tension between, the communities in general and not just for Hungary and also for the other ethnic minority group, because we have lots of them. We have more than 20, ethnic minority groups in Serbia. So it's, sometimes it gets quite hectic. What I usually say is that, like almost everybody from my community, I also hold, dual citizenship, which means I have two very useless passports, both in terms of, the European Union and, any other countries. And also if I would like to choose between two countries, like now, at this point, I think Hungary and Serbia are pretty much on the same level. If you are thinking about democracy. Or press freedom or any sort of, you know, political, system. Well, now, after the elections, I wouldn't say that there is huge tension towards Hungary and other communities. But I also wouldn't say that there is no tension at all. So I would say that now it's more like a silent war. So they are like, changing, maybe street signs. They are changing names on the street, maybe, from Hungarian to Cyrillic. And this is something very passive and very small. But this is something that may be on a day-to-day basis you can notice that maybe this sign used to be Hungarian. With the media, we have, we are the first ethnic minority community, we have 3 or 4 media outlets. So I think, you know, with the minorities, it's always like this. They are trying to give something, but at the same time, they are taking something. So you never hold the winning position so we can have Hungarian scores, we can have Hungarian, institutions and also media. The media itself depends on the government and if not the Serbian government, then on the Hungarian government, which means it's not independent at all. The community has to face lots of propaganda, and censorship. We have a Hungarian party, in the parliament at the moment. But they are not really, I wouldn't say they are doing a great job because they are in the coalition with their current government, which is again, a quite out-of-date, government. So it's a bit, we have to see if we can operate for now. I think so. Now we don't have, like, harassment. Yes. When I was a bit younger in high school, I had some, some issues that, I got, you know, beaten up or we get attacked because we were speaking Hungarian on the street, but we passed this, and I don't want to, like, go into this because I don't want to this to be as, as, you know, idea that people have that this is what happens or this is what usually happens. 

Jakub: Tell me more about your audience. Like, you know, how big is it and who are those people? Just so we can try to better understand them. 

Orsolya: Yeah. So our audience is, mostly based in the northern part of the country and also in Hungary, because lots of people went back to the mother country. At this point, we are talking about sometimes 80,000 people or more. I think regarding the age, it's slightly mixed. We have older people because you also have a painted magazine, so probably it's more for older people. But the online platforms are very followed by also like younger generations. And it's also, I think if you would think about like what they're doing, it's also mixed. But everybody is mostly in the northern part of the country while in Hungary. 

Jakub: That's great. Okay, so I wanted to talk initially when we started to talk about the podcast, about your podcast. So if you could tell me a little bit more because you also did a training in podcasting, what was it? 

Orsolya: Well, the first time I was starting to like exploring podcasts, I was working in the radio station and we were doing podcasts, and this was like the first time I was introduced to podcasting, and it was interactive because, we were learning about,  how to do it and how to record it. And so and I like the whole idea of the format. And for over a year that was my main task to do, to create some content. And then I, I was thinking about that, especially during the pandemic. So most of the people were doing things like making bread or some arts and crafts and I was like I have so much free time I could do a podcast. But I didn't want to talk myself because, I wanted to have initial stories, from people that live to that narrative. So I was, opening up my laptop and I decided, okay, I'm going to do a podcast by myself, and I'm going to invite guests. And then that time I was living in Poland, in Krakow and on Facebook, I started to look for people. I posted on Facebook that I'm going to do a podcast. I'm going to ask uncomfortable questions. And if someone feels comfortable enough to talk with a stranger, then reach out and I will explain the details. And this was the moment when I created my English podcast, The Cafe Post, and this was, like a branding mess from the beginning. But I was like, okay, you know, it's my first, production that I'm doing by myself, so maybe it's, it's fine if it's not perfect. So in this sense, I was, truly selecting topics I wanted to talk about. And I was very lucky because I found people that were comfortable enough to share their experiences with me. So we had different episodes on polyamory, taboos, on BDSM. I was doing it every month and I would choose a different topic, and I'm going to ask someone who's living an experience or a situation to share, his or her story. And I was doing this for a year, and then I got, a message, from Press Freedom Foundation that they are also planning to do a podcast. And, if I would maybe like to, to help or if I would like to do it. So this was a bit different. This was for the project. It didn't have a different platform or different name. It was just our first podcast that we were doing, in Hungary. And I was a bit concerned, because of the Hungarian language, because before that I was working in English. And I felt that when I'm set, I think people from different backgrounds and I think initially rather open-minded people, it's easy to have this, comfortable atmosphere where you are just discussing things. But I also know that in my community, people are a bit closed and they are not so comfortable truly going into discussion. So they are more comfortable to have maybe an interview. But I wanted to have a discussion, not an interview, so I was a bit, nervous about it. So after a year, because this project went on for a year, again, it was, on me. What kind of topic do I want to work with, and how I would like, to reach out to people? And then I became like a full, partner of this, foundation. And I decided to do a new podcast that would be more closer to what I imagine, is a podcast. And so I started a podcast with, with actually with a partner so that now we are the two of us and inviting a third guest and it's, mostly about, topics that would be like, relatable for a woman in our community. Not just feminist topics, but also about feminism. And we came up with a Hungarian name which means let's go, guys. It's a bit of, like a last-minute name, I would say. But this is what, we came up with. And so far I've been doing this for a year with my partner Greta. And, we are inviting different guests, most women to talk about, topics, films. Because I was thinking a lot about like, if it's like a true feminist podcast where we're trying to be like pushing our ideology on other people. But I would be more comfortable to say that, no, like, we are using this platform to maybe show that there are like different opinions, different values that can be also, interesting to at least listen. And we are doing this this year. And I remember our first topic was about because we started on Women's Day. So like the first introduction, was about Women's Day. Like what? Because what does this mean? Because, you know, what is the difference between the countries and comes to thought women's day in general, if you are getting flowers or equal rights. And then the next topic was like, we already did like, like a deep dive in it. And we were talking about masturbation. And I was very nervous about it because again, I know my community, I know these people. I know that, if I would say that, oh, we going to do like a feminist podcast and we're going to talk about masturbation and sexual life, no one going to listen because they will say this is something nasty. So I was okay, we have to start somewhere. And they need a topic that would be interesting enough so people would listen. And it came out quite well. And I think, what was the moment for me to see that people are listening? This episode is where I started to get private messages and random girls were just texting me and hey, I listened to podcasts and then they shared how their experience was when, when they started, masturbating, for example, which is absurd. But at the same time, I find this, like, so nice because it means that they listened, they felt comfortable listening, and they felt comfortable enough to maybe reach out and share their stories as well. And, so now I also restarted my English podcast again, because for the coffee pods, I had a little break. So I restarted the English podcast as well. The first episode was about a school shooting. So, maybe as you can see, I was trying to look for topics that might be interesting for people, but they don't know how to ask. They don't know what to ask about. They may carry some articles about it, but they have an opinion about it, but they don't have like, first-hand experience regarding the topic. So I'm always trying to find guests who can share their stories that are related to the event I would like to talk about. And they managed to find a guy in the States who was actually in place because he used to be a school shooter, he went into a school. And then of course the police took him down and he was imprisoned for 16 years. And now he's like an advocate on this topic. So I reached out to him and they said, hey, you know, in Serbia we had these tragic events. People are creating different narratives and no one understands it. But maybe you can say something about this. And, I was nervous about this interview because I didn't want this to be like? You know, like a tabloid, but still, have this space for him to tell what was in his mind at that time and how this could have been maybe avoid that or what the signs, how he feels about the world events now. And, so I always try to find this perspective, which is a bit hard sometimes because, you know, people are maybe not comfortable talking with you and maybe they have, you know, different perspectives and they don't want to talk about it at all. So I'm always trying to find people who will maybe if I have an idea, like what I want to have in this episode, to have someone who can talk about an experience and not from the outside, but certainly from the inside. 

Jakub: I see. So I mean, you started the podcast, during a pandemic, which is, of course, when the whole podcasting industry boomed. And now we are seeing, little, little declines, at least when it comes to creating new podcasts. With this, do you think, I mean, is this form popular in a circular among your audience, do you think this is not only the content you are giving them, but the way you are giving them to them? Is this something good? Or did you try this also with different formats? 

Orsolya: Well, I think. I think, as you also mentioned, maybe a show like a podcast is good because this is something that you can listen to, but you don't have to like what it is, for example, or like, to sit in front of it. I think podcasts are getting more popular in Hungary and also in Serbia. We have more and more content. I still believe that YouTube and podcasts on YouTube are more popular. Even if maybe people, don't like watching it, it is just more of a platform that they get used to. But I will say that maybe in the West it's more popular than in Serbia. I think for us, it's always a bit of a confusion. So you have to explain it as it's a radio show, so they have more of, of, like, you know, you can touch base with people, like, so what is a podcast like, how why would I listen to something online or like, where would I listen? But if you explain it that, well, it's like a radio show that you listen to in your car, but you are not listening in your car, listening, you know, on the place that you can it's more, successful. I'm not sure if Spotify, for example, is popular in this sense, but I would say that podcasts are getting more attention also from this community, especially now that we have very good quality podcasts from Hungary and different topics because, for us, it's more comfortable to listen to things in Hungarian. Right? So, you know, we are not a huge station, let's say. But you know, we can share the same ideas or the same, experiences with Hungary. So lots of people are listening to podcasts from Hungary. I think you have to be a bit pushy with people when it comes to, listening to content itself. You have to post it a bit more. You have to be out there and say, hey, you know, go and listen to it because. Somehow I think people still forget to click buttons or like they aren't interested. But at the same time, if you are tracking the numbers like people listening, we have some people who follow it. And maybe if they see you, they going to say, hey, you know, I listened, to the latest episode and it was really interesting, but it's changing. Think, of course, maybe during the pandemic I wasn't in Serbia, but I guess during the pandemic it was more popular. But still, I think it's getting a nice amount of attention. But at the same time, I still believe that in Hungary and also in Serbia, YouTube is more, more of, you know, a sympathetic platform for people. 

Jakub: And, how do you see this going forward? I mean, I your outlet and be podcasting in general. Do you think it will become somewhat more popular? I mean, in Serbia. But in your particular case, it's a tricky question, but, going forward this is going to stabilize. 

Orsolya: I'm not sure if I would talk about, you know, being let's say popular or being more, you know, popular with it because I think it's also depending on the topic and I know that my topics are not like super popular topics. I wouldn't say it's a niche podcast, but it's probably not a topic that everyone would love to listen to. And, I don't like, for example, my English podcast, that's not my go-to. If it reaches a bit more people, I'm happy with it. If it just reaches these 100 or 200 people that it has now, I'm also happy with it. The Hungarian podcast is different because in that case, it's not just about the podcast, but the voice platform and the, let's say, the word brand that we are using. So of course, I would love for our magazine to be more popular, to have more readers. But I also know that we have our limits because of the language. Right? So I can't have, I don't know, millions of people, for example, because we don't have that many people. But, I think at this point we have, like a stable audience and even a bit growing. But also, I think we are not aiming to be like the most popular brand, let's say, the most popular magazine because we know we are happy. Let's say we are happy if we know that people are reading us, and they are choosing us over the other media platforms that are spreading propaganda. And if they don't want to commit, it's fine. If they don't want to sign up, that's fine. For us, it's enough if we know that they are reading us. 

Jakub: And for you, what is the one thing we like about podcasting? 

Orsolya: I do like that, you can only have a discussion and that you can add a nice personal touch to it. So it's not just that you have an interview, I'm asking questions and you're going to answer, but it allows you to get to know your guests and have a conversation with the guests and ask whatever you want because you can just be open-minded going into it. So I think, I think probably that's the that's why I also choose to try out podcasts, because with the interview was I had this feeling that like, okay, you know, you have like some sort of limitation maybe, you know, I have a topic I can't just go back and forth because of course when you are writing this down is going to be very hectic, but when you have the sound, you have the voice, you can feel that it's more of a conversation. You get to know your guests. You have a chance to share, a story that maybe, you know, otherwise it wouldn't be shared. 

Jakub: Great. Thank you. It was a pleasure to have you. And I would applaud because what I like about the podcast is that sometimes you just have to talk and then boom, it's 25 minutes in and I know we could go on and go on like this, but thank you for sharing your insights and explaining a very interesting case of your audience in a very interesting politically, space. 

Orsolya: Thank you. And thanks for having me. 

Jakub: And we are back probably in not probably you are back in the next two weeks for no streaming series, a bi-weekly podcast. But as soon as we slightly speed up, I hope we will be able to deliver even more, different conversations with people who are making stories all around the world. Thank you very much. And.